Mac
Note - I removed this post after apologizing to Mac last week after our rather heated online discussions - he called this post a "hit piece" - but upon reflection, and after seeing that he seems to be incapable of modifying his attitudes and behaviors, I believe this is an accurate post, well reflective of how I view him and many other Christians - so I am re-posting it.
This is Mac (above) . . . well actually, it's Jonathan Edwards, the notable 18th century theologian. Mac chose Edwards as his avatar. Can I assume that this means Mac agrees with, or in some way identifies with the beliefs of Johnathan Edwards . . .
. . . the sight of hell torments will exalt the happiness of the saints forever. It will not only make them more sensible of the greatness and freeness of the grace of God in their happiness, but it will really make their happiness the greater, as it will make them more sensible of their own happiness. It will give them a more lively relish of it: it will make them prize it more. When they see others, who were of the same nature and born under the same circumstances, plunged in such misery, and they so distinguished, O it will make them sensible how happy they are. A sense of the opposite misery, in all cases, greatly increases the relish of any joy or pleasure.~Jonathan Edwards. . . I suspect so.
Just as my avatar (below), as well as the name I use in discussion forums, are indicative of my current views:
Not long after I de-converting from Christianity back in 1999, I spent some time reading through a book - "Col. Robert G. Ingersoll's 44 Complete Lectures". I enjoyed the sayings of Mr. Ingersoll so much that I began to collect quotes from him:
"Christianity has such a contemptible opinion of human nature that it does not believe a man can tell the truth unless frightened by a belief in God. No lower opinion of the human race has ever been expressed."
~RGIBack to Mac - He is the co-host of Skeptics and Seekers, a podcast that I frequently listen to (see my previous post). I had been engaged in an online discussion with him for a few days. Most of our interaction was simply responding to each others previous responses. I had informed Mac that I was a Christian for 25 years but have now been an atheist, or non believer/former believer for the past almost 25 years. Mac admitted that he had read some of my blog.
At the recent end of our discussions, Mac offered some parting shots:
" . . . by your own admission, you were never a Christian."
"You were just pretending to be one, for 25 years, till you got tired of pretending."
"You were a cultural Christian, just like Richard Dawkins is now."
In all actuality, I never made such an "admission" as Mac dishonestly accuses me of. I have always maintained the FACT that I was indeed a Christian - A Christian in my beliefs, my actions, my fellowship, my conversations, my prayer life, my bible reading and study, and finally, the contemplation's of my mind. I felt guilt for "sinful thoughts" and repented. I felt sadness when I considered the "lost" among my family and friends and witnessed to them. I was always at church, Sunday morning, Sunday night, and Wednesday night. I would even take vacation time from work in order to attend week long "revival" conferences at my church. Often a small group of us men would meet at the church, usually on a Saturday night, and we would just talk about God, honestly discuss any issues we were experiencing such as doubts, fears, or besetting sins, then we would spend time praying, being open and honest, un-ashamed of what we were telling God in the company of our brothers.
I read Christian books veraciously, books by Christians and books about Christians. Books like "Rees Howells - Intercessor" by Norman Grubb, "In God's Underground" by Richard Wurmbrand, "Pilgrims Progress" by John Bunyan. Books by and about Watchman Nee, Jesse Penn Lewis, Andrew Murray, A. W. Tozer, C. H. Spurgen, D. L. Moody, etc, etc.
Considering Mac's avatar - I also read Jonathan Edwards biography "The Life of David Brainerd" - I read it several times actually. I would find myself lying in bed late at night, tears rolling down my face as I read and contemplated the dedication to God that David Brainerd had, dedication to the point that he would spend the last 5 years of his short 29 year life as a missionary to the native Americans in the northern east cost, riding alone, thousands of miles on horseback, in horrible weather, all the while he was slowly dying of tuberculosis.
But apparently, according to Mac, I was "pretending" the entire time. The admissions that I make NOW, and the views that I express NOW, as I view my Christian experience of the past from the present day NOW, causes Mac to proclaim that I was "never a Christian" THEN. That is how Mac has determined that I was never a Christian THEN - he bases that judgment on what I say NOW.
No, I am not surprised in the least. He is just another in a long line of Christians who have the nerve to make such bold accusations entirely from the position of their dogmatic ignorance. And speaking of Christians with dogmatic ignorance - many years ago, in the mid 1980's, I was having a discussion with a co-worker about Christian beliefs. I did not see any indication that he was a Christian: foul language, smoked constantly, brash, but he said that he was a Christian, and that he had a "salvation experience" when he was younger. I looked directly at him and said, "Pete, you have been fed a counterfeit - you are not a Christian".
Yep - when I was a Christian, Mac and I would have been buddies.
I have to assume that Mac is comfortable and confident in his Christianity. That is the definite impression that he gives off. But to be honest, in his written interactions with me and others, as well as his verbal interactions on the podcast . . . well . . . he doesn't seem to display what Jonathan Edwards and others describe as "spiritual".
At times during the verbal sparing on the podcast, Mac has accused David, his interlocutor, of lying, or being a liar. He will constantly interrupt him and then he complains when he is interrupted. In other words - is this Christian behavior? In a word
YES
Many years ago, in the midst of an online dialogue with a Christian, I quipped, "Bill, I must say, you are the perfect example of a Christian." His response was a genuine "Thank you". My response - "Bill, that was not meant as a complement".
Mac is definitely a Christian, and it is because of Christians like him that I am so glad that I got out when I did.
I am so glad that I got out when I did.
"Give me the storm and stress of thought and action rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith. Banish me from Eden when you will, but first let me eat of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge."~RGI
bob
r.u.reasonable@gmail.com
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