The Things Christians Say, part 5a

 

"Must not contradict. . ."

"But monster can't help self. . ."

"Aaaaarrrrr"

Invasion of the Contradiction Monster 

staring Macenstein

Is it any wonder that many Christians refuse to recognize contradictions in the bible? No - it is perfectly understandable - when you see that some Christians can't even type two paragraphs without contradicting themselves.

A bit of a quick recap - below is a short exchange that Mac and I had:

bob - (referring to Jesus as) ". . . a dead apocalyptic prophet who roamed Palestine for 3 years before he was executed for sedition some 2,000 years ago."

Mac - "No Christian of any variety ever ascribes this description to Jesus, so by your own admission, you were never a Christian."

Mac doesn't seem to understand that this is my view of Jesus NOW, as an atheist / former Christian.  This was NOT my view of Jesus THEN, when I was a Christian.

Mac - "You were just pretending to be one, for 25 years, till you got tired of pretending."

What an ass - why would I pretend - and why would I pretend for 25 fucking years?  What could possibly have been my motivation to attend church, tithe, pray, study the bible, evangelize the lost, give financial aid to other Christians in need, confess my sins to my close Christian brothers - what was my motivation to give so much of my time, money, and attention in support of a belief - for 25 years - when all the while I was just pretending?

What an ass!

Mac - "You were a cultural Christian, just like Richard Dawkins is now."

I was not born into a Christian family.  I was not raised in a Christian family.  I became a Christian out of a sincere sense of guilt for my life of "sin".  I believed that I was "lost" and deserving of an eternal punishment in hell, but I agreed with Jesus that he paid the price for my sins and that by placing my trust in him and repenting, I would be born again and would be transformed into a new creation.  

Does any of this sound like I was a "cultural Christian"?  

Now - below is a portion of a clarification post from Mac, on the Discus forum at Skeptics and Seekers.:

Mac - "Anyone who apostatizes/leaves the faith was a Christian, . . . " 

This seems pretty clear.  Mac's view is that anyone who had a Christian faith, then ceases to have a Christian faith, that person WAS a Christian before they ceased being a Christian.  Yep - we are in agreement.  I became a Christian at age 17.  My Christian faith (my faith in Christ), along with repentance from sin, is what made me a Christian.  When I left the Christian faith, or "apostatized" I was no longer a Christian.  I am now a former Christian.

Mac - ". . . when someone fully understands what it means to be actually saved, the full scope of it, they would never want to leave . . ."

It is almost as if Mac is now trying to complicate, minimize, or even counter what he had just fucking said.  He couldn't just leave it at that.  

In essence what he is saying here is this - no ®True Christian would ever WANT to leave their Christian faith, and therefore, no ®True Christian ever WOULD leave their Christian faith.

Mac - " . . . the fact that some people leave proves that they were never fully convinced, they were just along for the ride . . . and so the call is to actually be saved and born again . . ."

Now this is some crazy Christian dancing going on here.

Again - "Anyone who apostatizes/leaves the faith was a Christian, . . . " 

A concise declarative statement - if you leave the Christian faith (that you were once a part of) you were a Christian - simple as that - a Christian left Christianity and is no longer a Christian.

Again - ". . . when someone fully understands . . . they would never want to leave . . ."

"Fully understands" seems to be code for being a ®True Christian.  The problem is, what if the Christian didn't want to leave Christianity, but felt they had to?  What if they felt that they had to be honest with themselves and honest with their friends and family who were Christians?  What if they just no longer believed?  They didn't stop believing because they WANTED to stop believing, they just came to the realization that they could no longer believe what they found un-fucking-believable.

And again - " . . . the fact that some people leave proves that they were never fully convinced, they were just along for the ride . . . and so the call is to actually be saved and born again . . ."

Mac seems to be saying that people who leave Christianity "were never fully convinced, they were just along for the ride", and since people who leave apparently were not "actually" saved nor "actually" born again, they were not "actually" Christians

. . . and then . . .

Mac, in another explanatory post - "Someone who leaves the faith, never understood or knew salvation, for them it was just a lifestyle . . . it was one lifestyle that they trade in for another . . . and most of the time when they leave . . . it's not like they're all friendly about it either . . . it was just a a phase of life . . . the natural tendency is to malign Christians and Christianity as a whole as they leave, even decades after . . . so no you weren't a ®true Christian, because the mark of a true believer is perseverance to the end."

"Anyone who apostatizes/leaves the faith was a Christian, . . . " 

"Someone who leaves the faith, never understood or knew salvation, . . . "

" . . . so no you weren't a true Christian, because the mark of a true believer is perseverance to the end."

Translation:  Some Christians do leave Christianity (apostatize) but they were not ®True Christians or ®True Believers because ®True Christians and ®True Believers would never leave.

What an ass!

If all the Christians who have accused other Christians of not being “true Christians”, were to vanish – there would not be any Christians left.
~anonymous

bob

r.u.reasonable@gmail.com